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  Beginner BeginnerMember since: 01.11.2011, 05:20Posts: 45 Likes: 0
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 15.03.2012, 00:08 
Will you ever make the tutorials? The assets look great, but the only thing better would be if I knew how to make them myself!

User avatar   Has no life Has no lifeMember since: 27.12.2007, 01:50Posts: 6478Location: Nottingham Likes: 4
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 15.03.2012, 04:51 
How did I miss this thread? Assets look really fantastic! Amazing work man.


Associate Producer - New World Interactive
User avatar   Uber Modder Uber ModderMember since: 26.11.2007, 02:03Posts: 2868Location: USA Likes: 140
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 15.03.2012, 05:10 
Quote by Fortran:
How did I miss this thread? Assets look really fantastic! Amazing work man.



Because you don't love me anymore!!! *Cries*

hehe, seriously though I was really curious when you would grace my thread with a comment or two. Made me very sad that you hadn't posted yet. hehe

Feel free to download and try em yourself Fortran, they be released now :D


@Grim Tuesday:

Im sorry man, Im stuck in the country with low speed connection and no bandwidth for large uploads 5MB and up. :/

As soon as im back in Florida on the 23rd I will be starting the tutorials ;)
  Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 05.03.2010, 17:23Posts: 369 Likes: 5
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 15.03.2012, 08:26 
Great Asset Pack, Love the flowers and Pine Trees. And some of the bushes looked great. Not sure about the grass.

The .Veg pack didn't work for me, not sure why.

Have a few questions, criticism, and suggestion if you don't mind.

So you know, had to manually apply textures to most objects. Done quickly, but this is because you exported a new modified model without the texture, using the material applied to previous model. Rename both and re-export you texture again with your new model, so you can just copy settings from previous material. then delete old stuff. You might be able to rename it back to previous name after exported, not sure if it will stick after that.

Currently, I'm working on optimization, trying to understand how things work and what can be done. Had some thoughts I'd like to share. Like to hear what you think, possible feedback as to why I'm wrong. Thx

Textures
Some texture are greatly optimize but others could utilize better us space, you have some textures that are barely distinguishable, Some leafs textures are not that different why not just use one leaf with higher uv resolution?

Not sure how you decided to map out the Pine Trees, (btw they look great :) Will have a look, But I would think they could have been done with much higher resolution, reducing the need for such large textures 2048.

Ex: moss texture uses half of a 1080p screen resolution, why the moss detail is spread out using barely any uv space, the different versions of moss can't be recognizable both because of uv rez, and object rez on screen.

Your uv distribution seems even and pretty at the expense of resolution in game, not sure why you wouldn't want to squeeze as much res as you can?

And finally, Materials setups, you could use as few materials as possible, just combine as sub materials. for instance your forest trees, They can be group under one Trees material, sub leafs and branches. Similar to Plants material. This might require working with several object under one file, but it's suggested better for performance.

Proxies

They are red color coded suggesting high poly counts, by the look of it, you didn't make separate proxy mesh for the trees, this add unnecessary calculations.
Use the proxy tool under crytools. Quick way to produce simple meshes for your objects.

I'd optimize even more, unless you plan on having physical particles bounce off each branch, you could remove physical collisions at the upper half of the trees, or reduce every odd proxy created using proxy tool element mode.

Or name the trees without proxy for branches as Pine_Distance or Pine_No Proxy, So the artist knows where to use what type of tree for best optimization.

The Trunk could be a 4 side rectangle angled to evenly cover the rounded surface.

Can you reduce the Mountain mesh with optimizer and use it as a proxy?

No LOD

But I guess that has something to do with discussion above, Lod work fine for me on objects, not sure about vegetation objects.

Breakables and leaf bending versions
Wondering if you plan to make your leafs touch bending, nothing is worse the static bushes. Or trunks procedural. (side note: just played the new medal of honor, It's a task to find something interactive in that game lol)

I hope I didn't hit you with to much, I'm trying to learn the best performance optimizations following guidelines below, thought I'd share some ideas, hope to hear why you guys think for even better tips.

http://freesdk.crydev.net/display/SDKDO ... Guidelines

http://freesdk.crydev.net/display/SDKDO ... Guidelines
User avatar   Skilled Modder Skilled ModderMember since: 03.10.2008, 06:29Posts: 728Location: USA Likes: 0
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 15.03.2012, 08:53 
@Architect, massive wall of text you got there. Mind adding a table of contents for us and future readers?
Jokes aside, interesting points you have there. I think many of us have much to learn in terms of optimization. Looking forward to see themodman101's opinion.


I can help with voice overs and beta test. If intersted PM me.
User avatar   Uber Modder Uber ModderMember since: 26.11.2007, 02:03Posts: 2868Location: USA Likes: 140
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 15.03.2012, 10:04 
Well here goes nothin:



"So you know, had to manually apply textures to most objects."

This is due to your end, as most people that have this issue its a file-path problem. and has been covered in documentation.

There are 2 known material issues, bushes, and dead branches. And these are setup correctly however they still do not work for some unknown reason. Both Lavizh and I tried to fix these particular issues.

"Some texture are greatly optimized but others could utilize better us space,Some leaf textures are not that different why not just use one leaf with higher uv resolution?"


This is due to photo-source, and an unfortunately unavoidable ramification of using random images. Up-scaling does not work with textures. However, the leaves are still more varied, and its better than wasting even MORE UV space. "Lesser of two Evils".

"But I would think they could have been done with much higher resolution, reducing the need for such large textures 2048"

2K will be standard soon, and this is just a kick-start, always remember to plan ahead. People can down-rez them if they wish. And this way I pack maximum detail in the branches themselves. And I don't have to release an update to up-rez. You don't have to use 2k if you don't want to. But its there if you need it for a film project.


"moss texture uses half of a 1080p screen resolution, why the moss detail is spread out using barely any uv space"

This is a very good question. And there is a perfectly good answer for it. Future expansion, this way I have room to add more. And this also goes along with my previous statement of lower resolution Photosource. Unfortunately I couldnt use anymore UV space because I had Hit the max for the photosource.


"Your uv distribution seems even and pretty at the expense of resolution in game, not sure why you wouldn't want to squeeze as much res as you can?"


Once again this differs on the user, these need to work well for both film. and free game use. High resolution gives the user room to wiggle.


"And finally, Materials setups, you could use as few materials as possible, just combine as sub materials."


This actually can be a bad thing, remember I'm making this for people that don't have the know-how to do it themselves. Also the difference between Sub-Materials and Materials is in overhead. And this is so tiny that it doesn't really even matter on large scale. Plants are less effected than brushes due to the Shaders. at least according to my tests.


"They are red color coded suggesting high poly counts, by the look of it, you didn't make separate proxy mesh for the trees"


You are 100% Correct, there is no Proxy separate for the tree's themselves. In theory this makes a large difference. In actuality it doesn't. You can test this out yourself.

As you know, the Physics proxy is Rasterized on the CPU for use in physics calculations. And of course the more simple the Geo the better. However this has 0 effect on performance when shooting the tree's, or running into them. I tested this myself using A variety of different methods, and 2 different systems.

Now where it really comes into play is when you have say a rockslide going into the forest. Now this can cause large amounts of CPU overhead when calculations are done. In this case its very important. And I would have made them if I werent already strapped for time. It was either Release the tree's or not at all. As I had almost no time left to work on them.

Once again, had to choose the lesser of two evils in this case. But you are right to point this out.
Also, the tree's are at and below Crytek's recommended Tri Counts. as the fur tree's specifically are Main tree's.

"Can you reduce the Mountain mesh with optimizer and use it as a proxy?"

This isn't necessary, but would be a useful edition to others. My rock packs all have custom Proxies. Though these are delayed untill I get my work done on my game.

"No LOD"

"But I guess that has something to do with discussion above, Lod work fine for me on objects, not sure about vegetation objects."


As has been pointed out many times, LOD's attached to a CGF is deadly on DP's this is made even worse in the new build. And for now Performance is many times better without them. Read the Tree_Documentation for information on how to use Sprite distance ratios instead to cut down on drawcalls.


"Breakables and leaf bending versions
Wondering if you plan to make your leafs touch bending, nothing is worse the static bushes. Or trunks procedural."


One Evil word that plagues all people in my position. TIME

Remember one thing when you think about this asset pack: while working on it, I am in one of the hardest Accelerated programs in the world for Game Art. AND I 'm working on a game, among other Freelance related projects.

Ask anyone that knows me personally(Excitewalk, Lavizh), and they will tell you its a miracle I had time to make anything at all for you guys. I hate to say that, cause I enjoyed making these for the community. However I sacrificed a lot to make em as they are. Along with other things that weren't included in the pack. But hopefully will be in the future.

Some are imperfect and rushed, but unfortunately until I get some more time. its stuck as it is. Except for maybe LOD's when that is fixed.

Your questions are all valid and good ones, I look forward to seeing some of your work in the future. ;)
  Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 05.03.2010, 17:23Posts: 369 Likes: 5
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 15.03.2012, 15:44 
Thanks a bunch for your time in answering thoroughly. It was quite educational. I look forward to hearing about your new game. As for me, I'm just working on a level based off a movie scene, to see how close I can resemble it in Cry Engine. Kinda using Eat3D Cry Engine video tutorials as a guide for my first level. Will post a thread when I get through the tutorials and hopefully get some of your feedback.

Fantastic real time tools and the latest A.I realtime navigation volumes, should save so much time. Yeah time is a killer, were moving so fast in a world where nobody can keep up hehe The bugs in recent game releases are a testament to that.

Will try to figure out the issue on my end. Thanks for the tip.
User avatar   24/7 Modder 24/7 ModderMember since: 05.11.2011, 08:27Posts: 3426Location: My own HQ. Likes: 451
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 15.03.2012, 22:20 
MEdiafire link pls .........


Image

Join the social community today!

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User avatar   Beginner BeginnerMember since: 12.05.2011, 20:03Posts: 34Location: France Likes: 0
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 15.03.2012, 23:09 
Incredible work, really nice assets,
If i saw that before starting my project i would use it for my machinima.
But i'm taking it for another project now.
Again really nice work
Best regards,
User avatar   Uber Modder Uber ModderMember since: 26.11.2007, 02:03Posts: 2868Location: USA Likes: 140
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 16.03.2012, 01:18 
Quote by ShadosProd:
Incredible work, really nice assets,
If i saw that before starting my project i would use it for my machinima.
But i'm taking it for another project now.
Again really nice work
Best regards,


Wow, Im honored!! I would love to see a michinima made with my stuff ;) please post the stuff you make with it here to mate :D

Quote by GFACE_club:
MEdiafire link pls .........


Lavizh was kind enough to provide this for me and you guys:

Enjoy:

http://www.mediafire.com/?f5jesgctj1t57lf


EDIT:

Okay guys, im working on touch-bending as per request from a few people. And its working out well so far. I mean its not a huge time consumer, once you get the hang of it.

LOD's, Proxies, and Touch Bending will all be included in the last Update to the Alpine Asset pack. That I can promise ;)
User avatar   Superstar Dolphin Superstar DolphinMember since: 16.08.2004, 10:46Posts: 9884Location: Finland Likes: 189
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 16.03.2012, 14:03 
Great news that! :) Yeah touch bending is pretty simple to setup once you get the hang of it. The only issue is that the touch bending bones are applied for the entire model based on the physicalization of the material, not the individual submaterial. I found out that once I modeled a physics proxy for my trees (and hence both my trunk mtl and branch mtl were non-physicalized), it would make my trunk have touch bending too... :P Didn't look incredibly good. I can imagine that's why most (if not all) Crytek's touch bending vegetation were grass, bushes etc that didn't have a solid trunk.

It works fine if your trunk is physicalized and branches are not, ie. there's no separate physics proxy - just like you already have them setup. :)
User avatar   Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 26.01.2011, 20:00Posts: 254Location: Croatia Likes: 9
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 16.03.2012, 15:48 
But you can define amount of bending with vertex colors, right? So, you make whole model physicalized but paint vertexes on a trunk defining it as a non-movable. Or does this only apply to the wind?
User avatar   Superstar Dolphin Superstar DolphinMember since: 16.08.2004, 10:46Posts: 9884Location: Finland Likes: 189
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 16.03.2012, 18:23 
No, vertex colours only affect detail bending as far as I'm aware. Touch bending doesn't work at all if your model doesn't have vertex colours (detail bending) setup, so there might be a chance if you leave your trunk with no vertex colours it won't bend. :)
User avatar   Uber Modder Uber ModderMember since: 26.11.2007, 02:03Posts: 2868Location: USA Likes: 140
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 16.03.2012, 18:30 
Really Grim? that's weird!! cause I don't have any vertex colors on my Tree's that Ive already rigged so far and it works okay.. Hmm. I wonder if I did something wrong, but it was a happy accident. :D

Im going to check and recheck make sure that it works still, lol. Gotta make sure its not gonna crash anything you know. :P

Thanks for the Tip Grim, that should be helpful to know.
User avatar   Superstar Dolphin Superstar DolphinMember since: 16.08.2004, 10:46Posts: 9884Location: Finland Likes: 189
 

 Post Topic: Re: Alpine Asset Pack Update Is Released! Build 2.4.0 Page 1
PostPosted 16.03.2012, 18:43 
I just took a look at the free SDK documentation, and it doesn't mention detail bending so it's possible that was only a requirement for CE2 where I originally modeled my trees and ferns. :)