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User avatar   News Posters News PostersMember since: 14.03.2008, 21:31Posts: 1662 Likes: 5
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 12.07.2012, 14:46 
Quote by Dictator93:
Hey Thomy!
I am not sure if you saw the ehem "leaked" documentation for CE3 from E3 2012. But, ehem, if you happen to see this documentation it may or may not confirm things that you and specifically discussed in this thread. To say the least, I am impressed.


hehe yeah! I didn't see the glossy reflections and the "advanced POM" instead of Tesselation coming, but these are impossible to spot :)
I don't know if we are really allowed to talk about these papers, so I will restrain from doing so too much in this thread at least.


By the way, it is confirmed that MechWarrior Online, as the first CryEngine game uses a LeagueofLegends/ WorldofTanks - like server authorative online connection model unlike the client-oriented model which is default for CryEngine.
This basically means that your Mouse/Keyboard input is sent to the server and the resulting movement is calculated there to be send back to you as a result instead of you sending your projected movement to the server.

Very very important move against cheating.
I wish this was implemented in more games (Crysis!)

Here is the quote
Quote:
What has been the most challenging mechanic to implement?
<[PGI]Omid> I'd say it's been getting the movement right, and mostly because of the approach we are adopting. At the outset we took a hard line against cheating - we figure an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure to that end we've adopted a server-authoritative model (as opposed to the client-authoritative model CryEngine uses), which has involved many changes to the net code. What all this means is that regardless of what cheating tools a hacker employs, we can ensure they'll never be able to turn their torso faster than the proper rate, or move/accelerate faster than a legitimate player can. This is pretty huge for a free to play game, and has definitely been one of the more challenging aspects since it didn't come engine-supported. Sorry if that answer as a bit technical.


-> Thomy's CRYENGINE blog
-> twitter
-> Want some optimization on your project + some feedback?
-> I might help!

User avatar   News Posters News PostersMember since: 14.03.2008, 21:31Posts: 1662 Likes: 5
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 12.07.2012, 19:44 
in case you did not see the awesome news:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/07/12/cryte ... e-popping/

- LOD Baker like Unreal Engine's Simpligon (though unlike in Unreal Engine, this seems to be self-developed and not just a bought plug-in)
- Creates High-Quality LODs in the engine itself. Is able to reduce Polycount to 10% on average and apparently looks great.
- will "soon" come to third party CryEngine developers.

Quote:
Crytek tech to purge texture popping

Image
(Crytek's Dan Evans)

Hovering around the lesser populated and more technical sessions of the Develop conference in Brighton yesterday, I caught a fascinating demonstration of in-house technology that Crytek is using to combat the problem of popping in its games.

Called the LODBaker, it’s a nifty little plugin for the Cryengine SDK which aims to take the hassle out of creating low resolution assets for rendering in the distance, while at the same time reducing polygon counts to a tenth of their original value and speeding up framerates.

Apparently, console ports of Crysis 1 and 2 suffered badly from the popping effect that you often see when high resolution models and textures are swapped for low resolution versions as objects move away from the camera. This technique of switching assets depending on the Level Of Detail (LOD) required is common, and is intended to speed up graphics processing where high quality artwork isn’t needed.

The problem is that even small differences in the appearance of the LOD assets and the high detail object they’re being switched for can create a noticeable visual effect. Plus, any rendering errors as they’re switched will cause glitching that’s very distracting.

The way this manifests in a game is when you’re moving away from an object – say a building or a car – and it seems to jump or shift in shape or blink out of existence as you pass a point. When badly implemented, it’s especially noticeable on trees and vegetation as you can see the number of leaves or branches change when assets are switched.

Getting LODs right is tough. According to Crytek’s Technical Art Director Dan Evans, most have to be created by hand, taking original art assets and reworking them multiple times into low res versions for different draw distances.

“It’s a boring, thankless and time consuming task,” he explains, “And it’s very expensive, because it means using your most skilled and creative people to do a very menial task.”

The latest version of Cryengine, however, has a neat little plug-in called ‘LODBaker’, which generates low resolution textures and low polygon meshes from the original high detail versions in just a couple of mouse clicks. Essentially, LODBaker works with the in-game rendering engine to work out what each model will look like at distance and then strip out all the unnecessary detail.

‘Baking’ assets like this isn’t a new technique, but is traditionally done in the third party tools like Maya which are used to create the original models. Not only does it take longer, explains Crytek’s Charlie Cole, it also makes it make low quality objects look the same as high quaility ones when rendered in the game engine – hence the popping effect that’s visible when they’re swapped in. By creating the LODs within the game engine itself, that problem is easily overcome.

Plus, says Baker, it’s proved to be extraordinarily efficient.

“You can brutally slash the poly count,” he says, “We were aiming for a 50% reduction at each LOD level, but what we’ve achieved is getting them down to just 10% on average… And in most cases we only need one [!] LOD where before we needed two or three.”

LODBaker is already being used for Crysis 3, and will be available for third party developers using Cryengine soon.




This is the most impressive CryEngine 3 news for quite some time.
I still think that Crytek lacks behind, but what they actually implement themselves is crazy. Everything is done by themselves. The other big engines buy additional middleware from teams which worked on these features only, but Crytek always do it themselves... would probably even make their own graphics drivers if there was something to gain :)


-> Thomy's CRYENGINE blog
-> twitter
-> Want some optimization on your project + some feedback?
-> I might help!
User avatar   Skilled Modder Skilled ModderMember since: 30.04.2010, 14:42Posts: 672Location: Russia Likes: 0
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 12.07.2012, 21:09 
This sounds incredible, indeed. :) Can't wait to get my hands on that tool.
User avatar   Crytek Staff Member Crytek Staff MemberMember since: 02.08.2005, 19:01Posts: 2161Location: Crytek HQ Likes: 1
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 12.07.2012, 22:17 
Quote by Thomy:
By the way, it is confirmed that MechWarrior Online, as the first CryEngine game uses a LeagueofLegends/ WorldofTanks - like server authorative online connection model unlike the client-oriented model which is default for CryEngine.
This basically means that your Mouse/Keyboard input is sent to the server and the resulting movement is calculated there to be send back to you as a result instead of you sending your projected movement to the server.

Very very important move against cheating.
I wish this was implemented in more games (Crysis!)

It is not the default way CryENGINE handles the authority. That is the responsibility of the game to decide who has actually the authority over a given game object and how input is handled. Cheating is and will always be a big problem but server authority is not the silver bullet. You will get a lot of other problems to solve, especially input lag (can be reduced a bit with clever prediction tricks) but still, you won't get the same responsiveness no matter how many tricks you use. And that was the main reason why no Crytek game ever used this concept.


User avatar   News Posters News PostersMember since: 14.03.2008, 21:31Posts: 1662 Likes: 5
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 13.07.2012, 00:08 
definetely, yes. Input lag is an issue and in the end that is the main reason why the big AAA shooters don't work that way. But, in case of Free2Play games I think sooner or later this will be standard. One could argue that MWO or WOT do not need the input accuracy a Battlefield or CoD needs, but what people will come up with to make it happen remains unknown.

And then also you need a server structure to support these kind of operations, not really cheap.
The servers themselves need to be protected as well.

The reason why I gave Crysis as a contra-example is that clearly the amount of cheating in the game was a huge problem in each part of the series and in my opinion one of the worst in the shooter segment, while on the other the big Server-authority representatives are virtually cheat free.
Now, of course, in the case of Crysis this was surely connected to the open-minded, mod-friendly free to use tools supplied by Crytek, but i think the argument is still valid.

But hey, thanks for the discussion


-> Thomy's CRYENGINE blog
-> twitter
-> Want some optimization on your project + some feedback?
-> I might help!
User avatar   Beginner BeginnerMember since: 17.08.2011, 22:34Posts: 51 Likes: 0
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 21.07.2012, 03:29 
Hey Thomy, thanks for "Indirectly Illuminating" me with the idea for this here hacky-GI effect:

Image


(Emphasized for easier visibility)

I call this proprietary Global Illumination Technique;
Many Manually Placed/Bounced Low Intensity Low Resolution Shadow Casting Diffuse Point Lights,

or

MMPBLILRSCDPLEs ™ for short.

:whistle:

Runs like crap at any res higher than the .GIF's, but hey.... It beats LPV for portfolio renders... I guess....
  Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 22.02.2012, 20:54Posts: 372 Likes: 9
 

 Post Topic: Re: CE 3 Tech you might not know about [article series] - Pa
PostPosted 22.07.2012, 17:04 
Quote by Thomy:
http://www.crydev.net/viewtopic.php?p=801875#p801875

Chapter 4:
Hidden feature: Point Light Shafts

Note: This feature has not been publicly showcased yet and will hopefully improve when the SDK comes out, so do not judge the Crytek team too harshly yet.

Any updates on this?

And is this still considered a "hidden feature" or whatever?

Because, at least from the pictures which "Thomy" posted, it appears to be quite awesome :)) .
User avatar   Beginner BeginnerMember since: 17.08.2011, 22:34Posts: 51 Likes: 0
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 27.07.2012, 04:21 
User avatar   Skilled Modder Skilled ModderMember since: 15.04.2008, 13:25Posts: 624Location: Russian federation, Moskow Likes: 0
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 27.07.2012, 06:14 
Del.


i5 2500K @4.7Ghz; 16Gb DDR3 @1866Mhz; GTX480 @ 800/4000Mhz; ASUS p8Z77-M PRO; dual monitors.
User avatar   Beginner BeginnerMember since: 13.05.2011, 15:56Posts: 32 Likes: 0
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 27.07.2012, 10:22 
Quote by Computron:
Hey Thomy, thanks for "Indirectly Illuminating" me with the idea for this here hacky-GI effect:

Image


(Emphasized for easier visibility)

I call this proprietary Global Illumination Technique;
Many Manually Placed/Bounced Low Intensity Low Resolution Shadow Casting Diffuse Point Lights,

or

MMPBLILRSCDPLEs ™ for short.

:whistle:

Runs like crap at any res higher than the .GIF's, but hey.... It beats LPV for portfolio renders... I guess....

Love the effect, but I'd take your word on it being too expensive for game use.
User avatar   News Posters News PostersMember since: 14.03.2008, 21:31Posts: 1662 Likes: 5
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 27.07.2012, 10:44 
please_REboot: Why not try it out?
These new light shafts are the proper replacement probably. I wrote a little on this page about them viewtopic.php?p=1001811#p1001811
I can't really answer properly i am not on my PC for some time now, all mobile
:-(


-> Thomy's CRYENGINE blog
-> twitter
-> Want some optimization on your project + some feedback?
-> I might help!
  Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 22.02.2012, 20:54Posts: 372 Likes: 9
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 29.07.2012, 00:47 
Quote by Thomy:
These new light shafts are the proper replacement probably. I wrote a little on this page about them viewtopic.php?p=1001811#p1001811

But are the "light shafts" you are reffering to there actually "Point Light Shafts"? The pictures you posted there appear to be DX9 and not DX11?

Just came across this:

Quote by Kaneth:
DirectX 11 Features
http://www.crydev.net/viewtopic.php?p=938711#p938711


Image






Point Light Shafts

Light shafts have been present for the sun in CryEngine for a long time, however now the same light shaft effects for the sun are available to apply to any light in the game.
The effect can be tested by using one of the light flare materials provided and the new shader associated with them. The controls for the effect lie within the entity properties of the light itself.

The technique was originally developed to be included in Crysis 2 but wasn’t used in the retail product, Crytek are however making the technology available within the CryEngine SDK and FreeSDK for anyone who wishes to make use of the effects.

;)

Quote by Thomy:
I can't really answer properly i am not on my PC for some time now, all mobile
:-(

Still looking forward to your proper answer at a later time though ;) .
User avatar   News Posters News PostersMember since: 14.03.2008, 21:31Posts: 1662 Likes: 5
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 29.07.2012, 14:27 
they work with dx9, it was just a part of the dx11 upgrade package and they advertised it this way. I don't really know why


-> Thomy's CRYENGINE blog
-> twitter
-> Want some optimization on your project + some feedback?
-> I might help!
User avatar   Community Manager Community ManagerMember since: 09.01.2008, 01:11Posts: 8377Location: Crytek HQ Likes: 39
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 29.07.2012, 16:46 
PLS works better in DX11, better detail.



Image
Image
No dev/modding PM's please, use the forums! :)
User avatar   News Posters News PostersMember since: 14.03.2008, 21:31Posts: 1662 Likes: 5
 

 Post Topic: Re: Thomy's CryDev Blog [April 29th: The new Crysis 3 traile
PostPosted 29.07.2012, 19:55 
Quote by Cry-Adam:
PLS works better in DX11, better detail.

thanks for the info!


-> Thomy's CRYENGINE blog
-> twitter
-> Want some optimization on your project + some feedback?
-> I might help!