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User avatar   Trainee TraineeMember since: 20.08.2011, 23:30Posts: 142Location: Denmark Likes: 22
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 22.10.2014, 22:26 
I'm already aware of the cvar. If I change it, I'm able to make the grass align on the broken angles, but that just messes up the alignment where it was previously fine.

User avatar   Trainee TraineeMember since: 20.08.2011, 23:30Posts: 142Location: Denmark Likes: 22
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 28.10.2014, 09:46 
Quote by LoWang35:
Vegetation doesnt seem to be properly aligning to terrain when enabled.

Whats really wierd about it is that it seems to depend on the direction of the hill. For the purpose of showing the problem I created this mountain thing.

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I painted the grass red in order to more easily show the problem.

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When viewing the grass in this direction, the grass doesnt align all the way.

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If I move 90 degrees around the hill, things are perfect. If I move even further, things will start getting bad again.

I did a test in Cryengine 2 with "align to terrain" enabled and "fit to terrain" disabled.

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As can be seen, the grass aligns perfectly no matter the direction you'r looking.

And here's a screenshot showing the problem we're having in an actual ingame situation on a moderately steep hill.

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Here's a video showing the issue at 9:40

http://youtu.be/f0yV1Nbx4uU?t=9m40s

I don't believe this angle/direction based variation in the amount of "align to terrain" is intentional. It's hurting the look of some parts of our maps quite a bit. I'm just puzzled that I havent seen anybody else reporting the issue. Would be cool if you could just sort of copy paste the "align to terrain" code from Cryengine 2 and paste into CRYENGINE :p


Am I really the only one who's having problems with this issue? Is the only solution just to create smaller patches and try to make it as little visible as possible?
User avatar   Uber Modder Uber ModderMember since: 19.09.2009, 09:30Posts: 2687Location: Finland Likes: 182
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 29.10.2014, 20:40 
You should use single blade meshes and automerge now.
User avatar   Trainee TraineeMember since: 20.08.2011, 23:30Posts: 142Location: Denmark Likes: 22
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 29.10.2014, 22:45 
Unfortunately that solution isnt practical on our map :\
User avatar   Uber Modder Uber ModderMember since: 29.05.2010, 11:46Posts: 1326Location: Germany Likes: 163
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 29.10.2014, 23:26 
Quote by LoWang35:
Unfortunately that solution isnt practical on our map :\


why is that? Automerge works good for us as long as it doesnt crash and gives a huge performance boost.


User avatar   Beginner BeginnerMember since: 20.08.2011, 23:29Posts: 55 Likes: 12
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 01.11.2014, 06:00 
Procedural vegetation is still bugged for us in 3.6.10.

Editor: Image

Launcher: Image

- Trusty
User avatar   Crytek Staff Member Crytek Staff MemberMember since: 09.01.2008, 01:11Posts: 11250Location: Crytek HQ Likes: 836
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 01.11.2014, 16:16 
Hi Trusty,

I've just built 5 test levels to try and repro this issue but cannot.

Please make sure you do the following:

* Open the level in Sandbox 3.6.10 version.
* Uncheck and re-check the proc layers for all vegetation objects.
* Save and export the level.
* Generate terrain textures.
* Save and export the level.

If that still doesn't work for you, can you please attach a small repro level?



Image
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User avatar   Beginner BeginnerMember since: 20.08.2011, 23:29Posts: 55 Likes: 12
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 02.11.2014, 11:36 
Quote by Cry-Adam:
Hi Trusty,

I've just built 5 test levels to try and repro this issue but cannot.

Please make sure you do the following:

* Open the level in Sandbox 3.6.10 version.
* Uncheck and re-check the proc layers for all vegetation objects.
* Save and export the level.
* Generate terrain textures.
* Save and export the level.

If that still doesn't work for you, can you please attach a small repro level?


I've just made two clean levels, both 4x4km just as our original level. I exported terrain layers as well as vegetation groups from the original level and imported it back into both new levels. By doing this with the vegetation groups, it pretty much acts like a copy paste, so all the same instances/placements of vegetation assets are spawned on the new levels. It seem to be an issue with that exact thing. On one level, I cleared all vegetation instances before painting the test terrain layers containing procedural bound vegetation objects, this turned out fine in the launcher.

On the other level I didn't clear all instances (thereby keeping the non procedural vegetation objects also in place in the original map) before painting the test area and here it bugged out in the launcher. So it's down to either being the sheer amount of manually placed vegetation objects (we have hundreds of thousands) that breaks the procedural vegetation or simply cause they've been placed before the actual fix for the procedural vegetation came in (I do think several people would have noticed procedural still being broken if that was the case, though).

- Trusty
User avatar   Beginner BeginnerMember since: 20.08.2011, 23:29Posts: 55 Likes: 12
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 02.11.2014, 13:05 
Please disregard what I wrote above. I've found out that it isn't the case at all (clearing all instances before painting won't fix the issue).

In the test level attached, there should be 4 lines of procedural vegetation:

rocks, grass, bushes and trees as seen here in the editor:

Image
Image
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In the launcher the trees are missing.

I've imported all of our terrain layers as well as vegetation groups into the level, then deleted all the vegetation objects but the ones being used on the test layers I've painted. I then pointed the objects to standard sdk assets instead of our own.

- Trusty
Attachments:

proc_test.rar
[539.86 KiB]
Downloaded 6 times
User avatar   Trainee TraineeMember since: 20.08.2011, 23:30Posts: 142Location: Denmark Likes: 22
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 04.11.2014, 19:43 
While debuging the issue with procedural vegetation, I discovered a mismatch between a few values. If I export the "Terrain Texture Layers" and all of the vegetation items. Each vegetation item has an ID and a GUID. The same thing is present in the exported "Terrain Texture Layers" like this: <VegetationGroup Id="0" GUID="{5E5340A1-476F-4BDC-8B50-B63B9EDE00B6}"/>.

Image

I'm not entirely sure if this means something or not, but the GUID and the ID both on the vegetation file and the terrain texture layer file, matches correctly. This is version 3.6.9

Image

If we take a look at version 3.6.10. We see that the IDs doesnt match. I was thinking if it was a new way of writing the IDs using hexadecimals instead. But that wont make the IDs match either.


I wanted to take a look at the map in the launcher and see what actually where spawning on the terrain, so I took this cvar and put it into the user.cfg to avoid 400 million polys and started the launcher.

e_ProcVegetationMaxObjectsInChunk=8

Image

Image

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As you can see, the trees are spawning on almost every single terrain layer in our level. It even spawns on terrain layers which havent got anything procedural assigned to it at all.
User avatar   Trainee TraineeMember since: 02.03.2014, 10:50Posts: 124 Likes: 15
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 06.11.2014, 23:05 
I'd really love to see a Vegetation parameter that randomizes vertical orientation. Unreal 4 has this: a random pitch parameter that was nice for dding a little variance to your vegetation.
User avatar   Crytek Staff Member Crytek Staff MemberMember since: 09.01.2008, 01:11Posts: 11250Location: Crytek HQ Likes: 836
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 06.11.2014, 23:15 
What do you mean "randomizes vertical orientation" ?



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User avatar   Trainee TraineeMember since: 02.03.2014, 10:50Posts: 124 Likes: 15
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 06.11.2014, 23:25 
Let's say you're not using the "AlignToTerrain" flag, so it's aligning to the Z-axis. But you still want some variability to not just rotation around the Z-axis, but also along the X-axis. This would simulate things like weeds bending in random directions, without needing to author bent versions of your vegetation. One tall weed could appear to be bent in several ways. Another way to think of this is that if you drew a line in the direction that the object is oriented in, this parameter would turn that line into a cone pointing away from the surface, and the objects would be randomly aligned within that cone.

It's admittedly a small detail that can also be achieved by authoring bent versions that are randomly rotated, but this could save a little memory if we don't need to author bent versions.
User avatar   Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 19.08.2011, 07:44Posts: 341 Likes: 125
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 07.11.2014, 08:14 
Terrain Color Blending in 3.6 seems to be very off, due to backface shading. While it helps make grass look good up close, at distance, when grass is supposed to be blending it the terrain, it throws it off quite a bit, creating a very noticeable seam between the grass, and the terrain.

Here is a quick comparision between 3.6, and 3.5's terrain color blend. For this test, I used a pure white (255,255,255) terrain texture, and applied a procedural grass object to it, the grass object I used was custom, but the example is applicable to default SDK grass as well. I increased the "Terrain Color Bend" and "Terrain Color Blend Dist" params to their max value.

Here is the comparison:

3.6: (Bad, noticeable transition)
Image

3.5: (Great, perfect transition. 10/10 GOTY (Grass of the Year))
Image

Material Setup:
Image

If there could be a simple flag for the grass shader to remove this backface shading, and return it to the 3.5 method of shading that would be great. After 100+ hours of messing around with the SDK (on this matter alone), Im yet to create a terrain blend that looks good from all angles, transitions "well" with the terrain, and still uses the vegetation shader.

Please Crytek. Please Fix This.


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User avatar   Beginner BeginnerMember since: 20.08.2011, 23:29Posts: 55 Likes: 12
 

 Post Topic: Re: Vegetation
PostPosted 09.11.2014, 04:55 
Time for another update regarding our issues with procedural vegetation. I spent some six hours today setting an entirely fresh map up, creating all the terrain texture layers and vegetation groups with objects from scratch instead of importing our existing ones (the issue could be related to our map being several years old and it somehow not being able to support the newly fixed procedural vegetation we thought). The whole process went rather good in the begining, however it eventually ended just like all of our other tries - a failure.

I was able to make a total of 17 instances of 12 vegetation objects bound to various terrain layers before hitting what seemed like a top limit of 18 instances which resulted in the same, familiar issues we've been plagued with for the past year; broken procedural vegetation.

We're now convinced that the age of our original level has got very little to do with the issues we're having. This however, made us think of this line in the very OP of this thread: "Option to "use on terrain layer" for two or more vegetation objects at once." - To us, this would imply that CRYENGINE only supports ONE procedural vegetation object per level. Hopefully we've misunderstood something regarding it, since being able to only have one type of procedural vegetation on a level seems absurd to us.

That's all we've got for now and I doubt we'll be able to dig any deeper regarding finding a solution on our own - we feel like we've tried pretty much everything now. Hopefully you guys will be able to help us defeat this ancient pestilence of ours. :)

- Trusty