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User avatar   Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 01.02.2009, 12:25Posts: 295Location: Australia Likes: 4
 

 Post Topic: Roman Colosseum ***NEW VIDEO***
PostPosted 08.02.2011, 08:55 
NEW VIDEO! 8th May 2011
SCROLL FURTHER DOWN THE PAGE FOR UP TO DATE PICTURES AND YOUTUBE VIDEO OF SOME COLOURFUL BUG HUNTING

I thought I would share something that I am both proud of, but sadly disappointed by.

Below are images of my 2nd or 3rd attempt to try and create The Roman Colosseum in it's entirety.

I aim to create a non destroyed and accurate representation of the Roman colosseum including a full interior under the bleachers, and full interior of the Hypogeum, which is the area located underneath the arena floor.

There is no need for me to create the full Colosseum with interior. Right now it would only take me a day or 2 just to do the spectator seating inside, but this project is to test and push my abilities.
I would also love to see this building used as a multiplayer map for Crysis, as I believe it would be a fun mapthat could be played with any amount of people.

Primarily though, the Colosseum will be used in a Total Conversion project of mine which will remain unannounced with no information given to the public until it is done.

Unfortunately, this task is not an easy one.
It takes alot of careful research, and not just looking at pictures, but also looking at how things were built in that era, and researching actual measurements.
Another unfortunate thing is that the building is real, it exists, but is half destroyed with very little accurate information regarding the actual design of the Colosseum.

This lack of information and also lack of proper preperation on my behalf resulted in an already failed attempt to create the Colosseum back in April 2010, where I spent 2 months working on just 1/4 of the building before giving up.

Now after more preperation, I figure I would have done it right this next time, however I was wrong. My preperation was good, however I wasn't aware of things that would cause problems, and most of my approach was spur of the moment instead of forethought.
Once again, after starting the Colosseum from scratch in November 2010, I failed, however having nearly completely the entire base model (no proper details), I believe my efforts were well done, and it is for that which I am proud of my efforts.

Unfortunately, my efforts are not good enough for me to release to the public. I want to create an ACCURATE colosseum model. It does not have to be 100% accurate as there is no 100% accurate information out there on the Colosseum's design, however it was not done as accurately as I had wanted to do it, therefore I must start it again, using newer information that I had learnt during the course of development.

I feel highly disappointed in my failed attempt (again), and I feel the need to share my unfinished work with the public, which I have never done. But for whatever reason I feel it will help motivate me or lift the frustration off my shoulders, enough so that I can start the ball rolling again, and create an accurate version of this Magnificent piece of architecture.

So without further blabbering.

Here are some screenshots below from imageshack.us, or you can view the link below to simply go to my http://www.moddb.com profile and look at some pictures from my older failed version back in April last year.

http://www.moddb.com/members/otreum/images/colosseum-attempt-3-failed4#imagebox

IMAGES: (in no particularly glorious order)
ImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImage


(If anybody has any screenshot requests of different interior parts, I will be glad to take pictures. I may also do a video walkthrough later, but due to it being a failure, that may not happen).

After all of this failure talk and unmotivated blabber, I will say one thing:

I have learnt alot trying to model this Colosseum, and right now, just about any building thrown at me that ISN'T the colosseum would be easy for me to do right now.
(That doesn't mean i'm taking requests...I DO have my own total conversion to work on afterall :P )

Anyway, rip the model apart, say whatever, it doesn't matter (unless it's positive or discussive (it's not a word but it damn well should be!)
I know what's bad and what's not, and I definately know that there are alot of bad things on this model (things that I really don't want to show). So nothing anybody points out will be new to me ;)

I hope you all enjoy the images, and I hope this gives you all a taste of what you will get to play in Crysis 1 and maybe even Crysis 2 later WHEN I decide to do this model PROPERLY.

*** UPDATE ***
I thought I would let people know how many polys the mesh is and TRY to show a wireframe of the model.
And if anybody is wondering how I imported it, I created objects to be modular, so that they could be exported and the imported to the engine without worrying about object import limits. Some sections even after being seperate to the rest of the mesh still had to be divided into quadrants in order to import.

POLYCOUNT = 300,454 Poly's/Tri's

Image




Last edited by otreum on 04.07.2011, 03:23, edited 7 times in total.

  Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 05.03.2010, 17:23Posts: 351 Likes: 1
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 09.02.2011, 17:01 
what's wrong with it? besides its massive, hows the fps ingame? need a comparison picture of the real thing cause it looks fairly accurate to suit your not 100% accurate aim for the project.
User avatar   Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 01.02.2009, 12:25Posts: 295Location: Australia Likes: 4
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 10.02.2011, 01:02 
It's understandable that others may not notice a problem, but I do aim to do this model correctly. It just feels wrong to release it if it's not as accurate as I can possibly make it.

It's kindof like developers working on a game for years, then at the last moment, they rush it and screw the game up, then release it to the public who are highly disappointed at the poor quality of the final product compared to the game they saw initially in development.

There are other details I need to add such as finishing the emperors box, adding the seating area up the very top section of the colosseum, along with pillars lining the top area. I have exterior details which need to be duplicated around the model, but due to the amount of random changes that took place when I tried to add the entryways, the axis point for all the slices is now offset and will make it difficult to make any final changes and tweaks.

I have sun shades to make aswell, although they really aren't that difficult to make.

But the main thing is that in it's current state, there would end up being about 8 x 4096x4096 textures (each texture contains a group of objects that share the one texture space). So I think by adding those textures, things would run really poorly.

At the moment the FPS is actually really ok, I can duplicate the mesh about 3-4 times before it STARTS to get a bit sluggish in frame rate, and that's within the editor (which runs slower than in the actual game anyway).

My system is:
Graphics: Geforce gigabyte 480GTX
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4ghz (standard clock)
RAM: 2GB DDR2 PC6400 RAM (pretty basic Corsair RAM).
Hard Drive: 300GB Western Digital Veloci-raptor 10,000RPM, and 1 x 150gb Veloci-raptor 10,000RPM. (crysis is on the 300gb)

Also it's worth noting that at the moment my system also isn't running very well, so it's running pretty good considering.

Now for comparison pictures and the like.
Here is a google image which you should be able to make out the shape from.
http://www.kmzlinks.com/files/ColosseumInRome.jpg

I HAD the shape right, but there were a few parts of the interior mesh that I had done wrong, which meant having to elongate or widen the model. I chose to elongate it as it would have been less noticeable than widening the arena to allow for the entrances.
Here is the shape I was happy with.
http://www.moddb.com/members/otreum/images/colosseum-top-down-wip1#imagebox

Here is the shape I ended up with.
http://www.moddb.com/members/otreum/images/colosseum-attempt-3-failed#imagebox

Within the next few days I think i'm going to take a huge step back to about the half way mark of the model and see if I can fix this issue instead of starting the whole model again.
But even if I do that, texturing is still going to be a problem, so I'll still need to start again if I want to texture this model correctly.




Last edited by otreum on 10.02.2011, 01:19, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar   Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 21.01.2009, 17:31Posts: 368Location: Germany Likes: 7
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 10.02.2011, 01:33 
Make yourself a goal. The pursuit of perfection is not a goal. It doesnt have to be perfect. Just good or even OK. In my opinion releasing your work (textured) is more important than the perfection of it. Many people fail by redoing everything to perfection. I dont want this to die. Not this model.

Greetings


My Texture Help Thread fo Beginners.

My Texture "Pack" with 5 Textures now. Thread Download

Probably the best Cryengine/Modeling Tutoring Channel out there:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Futurepoly
User avatar   Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 01.02.2009, 12:25Posts: 295Location: Australia Likes: 4
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 10.02.2011, 08:32 
Thankyou for the comments Devil I Know. You are certainly right, since nothing can really be perfect.

I am not one to aim for perfection, but I am definately one to aim for something done correctly and to the best of my abilities.
I do not feel that I have correctly made this Colosseum model, and I do believe that I can do better and get it right the next time around when I start it again and plan it better.

As for releasing it textured, at the current stage, texturing this model will be very difficult, and with roughly 8 texture draws at 4096x4096 resolution with normal maps and specular maps, I can't imagine things will run too well for people.

I can definately try to do it, but right now as strange as it may sound, it would be better worth it to start again as it would be easier in the long run to fix any errors and what not.

There IS something I have been thinking about which may fix the end result;
As you can see in my previous post, the earlier WIP of my model was a shape that I was happy with. I believe I can still do that shape if I go back to that stage of development and make a few changes that really won't matter too much to the player.
I will look into that when i'm feeling refreshed.
Here is the shape I am happy with:
http://www.moddb.com/members/otreum/images/colosseum-top-down-wip1#imagebox

I can certainly guaruntee you that this model and my total conversion project WILL NOT die. I am not one to give up on something so large, this for me is like a Rite of Passage for architectural 3d modelling.
For me, to do this correctly makes me feel confident in creating pretty much any building I want.
And also shows potential employers that I like to do things correctly.

I believe that soon after I gather my motivation and mental energy again, that I will get back on the horse, but I think right now I should give myself a bit of relaxation time just to get my mind refreshed again and ready to give it my all once again.

Once again I appreciate the encouraging comments, it is more appreciated than you may think ;).




Last edited by otreum on 10.02.2011, 08:34, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar   Uber Modder Uber ModderMember since: 04.04.2010, 18:17Posts: 1389Location: Canada Eh ! Likes: 20
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 10.02.2011, 17:00 
I think it looks pretty darn good !

:D


Image
  Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 05.03.2010, 17:23Posts: 351 Likes: 1
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 11.02.2011, 02:25 
i think your going crazy (your motivation for perfection) but in the end you have to think about the game and time constraints. cause anybody can get anything more accurate given unlimited time to do it.

i mean i can barely tell what your talking about, the oval shape compared to the circle? ?( not worth rebuilding again. is this for a mod or 3d blueprint? nobody will notice these minor differences at that scale in game. id focus on the details in and around the Colosseum. for example, is that entrance a place holder for the real detail object? looks way to blocky, that's the first thing that would ruin the entire project efforts for me. even though the size of it all would be amazing, details can make or break the realism. another example would be the low poly arches inside? ?(

i don't know, good luck with it, i'd like to stand in the middle, feel like them gladiators a few thousand years back lol texture it with a basic stone texture to get a better feel for it, how long have you been working on it?
User avatar   Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 01.02.2009, 12:25Posts: 295Location: Australia Likes: 4
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 11.02.2011, 07:22 
Hehe, thanks Architect.

I am pretty crazy :P

The Colosseum is not 100% finished, hence why the entrance looks like a big block.

My aim was to complete the whole interior, exterior and seating/arena details first, then add other details such as the emperors box, which most definately is not complete.

The Imperial box is definately not finished yet, in fact it is really just a placeholder, hence the low poly archways ;) . It still requires me to draw up a concept for it (since there is no actual recorded evidence of what the emperors box really looked like, at least none that I have found).

On the Imperial box, there will be 4 pillars, each with a statue of Victory mounted on the top. There will also be a shade going over the imperial box, an emperors seat called a Bisellium, pottery and other props will also be present.
It is said that the emperor had a passage that lead directly to his box, however looking at the ruins of the colosseum, I cannot actually see any passage ways.
I would actually need to visit the colosseum if I were to do that part correctly, but i'm not doing that anytime soon :P

The whole colosseum actually started out with the intention of keeping polys as low as possible for every object as I didn't want the game to run poorly, however now that I know the engine can handle such a large amount of detail at once, I believe my next attempt will allow me to add more details to the model, which will be pretty awesome, as that will help out alot with texturing aswell.

As for standing in the middle feeling like a gladiator...it's pretty awesome. During earlier testing, I often stood in the middle just to get the feel. Changing the TOD to a brownish burnt look made it feel hot and exhausting aswell. :)

Ok, so I had a look at the earlier version today and I think I can do a different work around to the problems I had. This will hopefully result in a better shaped model, one which will allow me to continue my work easily as I won't need to change pivot points and so on so forth.

Perhaps 2 x 12 hour days to get a playable version of the map out only to find I didn't like it was a bad idea.

I am probably making a mountain out of a molehill again like I have done once before.

I am not working this weekend so I may just work on it tomorrow and sunday instead of starting again.




Last edited by otreum on 11.02.2011, 08:27, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar   Hardcore Modder Hardcore ModderMember since: 02.11.2007, 21:34Posts: 925Location: Birmingham, UK Likes: 2
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 11.02.2011, 11:44 
otreum,

Is that one large model, or modular parts? If its one large model then you're going to have one hell of a task of texturing it. It would also destroy the use of occlusion meshes which would help performance massively.

Also a shame you didn't add the roof canopy onto the colosseum. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions regarding modular content. I hope you do the exterior btw :)

Nice to see another member of game-artist on here!


Image


Last edited by Mr.Guybrush II on 11.02.2011, 11:45, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar   Skilled Modder Skilled ModderMember since: 01.10.2009, 15:16Posts: 618Location: CVN-83 USS Oregon Likes: 0
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 11.02.2011, 16:30 
Coloseeum Romanum looks great. Optime labore

I don't have much images myself, but if you were ever to visit Rome and the real coloseumm, that would be the best place to look for inspiration.

If there was only some hostile animals in Crysis that were confined to land, we could have gladiatorial battles.


USS Oregon CVN-83
User avatar   Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 01.02.2009, 12:25Posts: 295Location: Australia Likes: 4
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 12.02.2011, 01:37 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Guybrush II
otreum,

Is that one large model, or modular parts? If its one large model then you're going to have one hell of a task of texturing it. It would also destroy the use of occlusion meshes which would help performance massively.

Also a shame you didn't add the roof canopy onto the colosseum. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions regarding modular content. I hope you do the exterior btw :)

Nice to see another member of game-artist on here!


It is all modular. In fact, I think when I broke it all down to layout the UV's it ended up being over around 25 objects. Most objects share the same UV space, as they are very similar, other objects share the same texture map as they fit into the same category (such as "stairs/seats" or "ceilings/archways").
Even as is, the way i've done texturing is bad, it's really rough, and I fear it will result in bad texturing later on.
I really should have made as much use out of tile textures as possible, as currently the only thing tile textures will be used on is the floors and walls of some parts.

Either that or I should actually just use alot of of textures which I would make a 2048x2048, a 1024x1024 and 512x512 texture version. But when I say alot of textures....that is ALOT and with that many texture draws at a resolution such as 2048x2048, I can imagine a huge slow down in performance to the point where the game might just crash :P

I will grab an image later showing my workspace on the colosseum. It is just 1/4 of the colosseum that I work with, then duplicate around really. It is all colour coded to show the different texture groups.
Image

As for the canopy, it's pretty simple to do. I pretty much just duplicate the floor, move it up, add some detail to give it a bit more of a saggy look, since it is cloth, change the size etc, then duplicate around. I would then need to texture it so that the sun shines through it like it does through leaves in Crysis. I don't know if I would make it physicalized though :P
I've done the model with the canopy before, but I took it out in the export as I didn't want shade over my whole model just yet. I will say though that it certainly helps emphasise the sheer scale of the building.

I could do the task much easier if I used object referencing so if I need to change one object, I don't need to duplicate it around again. However to set up object referencing now would be a nightmare :P

As for having a Venatione (animal hunt) in the arena.....does this count as fair game?
Image




Last edited by otreum on 12.02.2011, 02:17, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar   Uber Modder Uber ModderMember since: 25.01.2010, 15:54Posts: 2018Location: Moscow, Russia Likes: 48
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 12.02.2011, 10:45 
Oh!, now i know, why its so destroyed. :) Huge and great work,Otreum!


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User avatar   Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 01.02.2009, 12:25Posts: 295Location: Australia Likes: 4
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 12.02.2011, 11:36 
lol I didn't even think about that! It makes sense now! hahahaha, well picked andrey :)

BTW, I have GOOD NEWS!
I went back to the model today and took a different approach at getting the entryways in, and all is well!

I should have some new images tomorrow of a better shaped colosseum. Also with pillars around the top, sun shades, and potentially wooden seating around the top area.

It still won't be textured, and the emperors box still won't be done (although I have added some more loops to the archways for now before I continue to add more detail ontop of the emperors box.

I will also be creating some gates and fenced/barred off areas around the colosseum which should not take very long to do at all.

So cross fingers that this may be all fixed up by tomorrow!




Last edited by otreum on 15.02.2011, 09:25, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar   Trained Modder Trained ModderMember since: 01.02.2009, 12:25Posts: 295Location: Australia Likes: 4
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 15.02.2011, 09:58 
!!!UPDATE!!!

Ok, I thought I should show you guys a little bit of testing work that I did tonight after completing the quadrant that i'll be duplicating to create the whole colosseum.
Here is some fruity coloured bug hunting for you all!

[YOUTUBE]9W-zKtx1q7w[/YOUTUBE]

(BTW: I tried to embed the video using the youtube tags but it will not load for some reason :S)


NEW SCREENSHOTS!

The past 3 days I have worked almost non stop to try and create a better shaped version without having to restart the colosseum.
Here are some screenshots to show the latest version of the colosseum (one which I am satisfied with, but still is not as accurate as I want it to be).
You may notice a few additional details that were previously too hard to implement due to the awkward shape I made which made it difficult to implement the details before.

Image

Image Image

Image Image

Image Image

Once i've added all extra details such as railings and completed emperors box, then I will make a video fly through of the model.




Last edited by otreum on 21.03.2011, 22:06, edited 2 times in total.
  Beginner BeginnerMember since: 02.06.2010, 21:56Posts: 63 Likes: 0
 

 Post Topic:
PostPosted 15.02.2011, 18:50 
300k poly? And you want that ingame? :P